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Message 1137 - Posted: 2 Apr 2013, 14:00:59 UTC - in response to Message 1136.

The following should highlight the difficulties I'm having:

Reported data
Project Application Running time (hours) Pending (hours)

climateprediction.net UK Met Office HADAM3P European Region 45.25 0.00
SLinCA@Home heavy_lodci011eq32v0p125T1XZ22 - MIN:runtime~16h(checkpoint 2h),RAM~536MB,HDD~60MB 44.35 0.00
MindModeling@Beta ACT-R cognitive modeling environment leveraging Clozure Common Lisp 42.28 0.00
SLinCA@Home heavy_lodci011eq32v0p125T1XZ38 - MIN:runtime~28h(checkpoint 2h),RAM~1GB,HDD~60MB 33.57 0.00
GPUGRID ACEMD2: GPU molecular dynamics 32.62 0.00
SLinCA@Home heavy_lodci011eq32v0p125T1XZ36 - MIN:runtime~24h(checkpoint 2h),RAM~1GB,HDD~60MB 27.73 0.00
physics@home simple cubic sintering nano R=2x50 r=30 27.03 0.00
SLinCA@Home heavy_lodci011eq32v0p125T1XZ34 - MIN:runtime~24h(checkpoint 2h),RAM~1GB,HDD~60MB 18.72 0.00
Einstein@Home Gravitational Wave S6 LineVeto search (extended) 18.45 0.00
SLinCA@Home heavy_lodci011eq32v0p125T1XZ32 - MIN:runtime~24h(checkpoint 2h),RAM~1GB,HDD~60MB 18.37 0.00
EDGeS@Home Autodock 4.2.3 16.02 0.00
ralph@home Rosetta Mini 11.82 0.00
physics@home Rendering film sintering nano 10.88 0.00
physics@home Rendering Simple Cubic crystals nano R=2x50 r=30 6.93 0.27
GPUGRID acemd short runs cuda 3.2 3.60 0.00
Einstein@Home Gamma-ray pulsar search #2 2.07 0.00
CAS@home ICT Protein Structure Prediction(2nd Generation) 0.97 0.00
physics@home coherence film sintering nano 0.37 0.00
physics@home Diffusional Growth 0.03 2.87
AlmereGrid Boinc Grid 3D Rendering Application 0.02 0.00

For my lowest 20 apps WU's are exceedingly rare. Several apps are no longer in use by the project and will never amount to anything. In a couple of years the list of inert apps could well be pushing 100, and that's for me. Some of the bigger/more diverse crunchers could have several hundred apps with only a few hours on each.

Some projects seem to have a new app every week or so, while other projects simply upgrade their one app every year or two.

So on the one hand we will crunch some apps but never reach 100h, and on the other hand some of us will easily reach blue for a few stars, and easily surpass this for favorite projects.

For my top four projects I have over 19,000h:
Docking Charmm 34a2 6,482.92 6.23
FreeHAL@home FreeHAL 2012 app 4,714.10 469.38
pogs fitsedwrapper 3,753.23 1.90
Poem@Home POEM++ OpenCL version 3,731.73 0.00

For my bottom 20 projects I have 335h.

Shaman already has 2 Blue stars and a Green, while I can't get a third star.

The badge system is quite accommodating, but could be more so - specifically for the top crunchers and those who crunch many projects but to a lesser extent.
Maybe a Star for the combined 'other apps' that have not reached 100h and a second badge or more colours? Just ideas, it's your show.

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Message 1138 - Posted: 2 Apr 2013, 14:36:51 UTC - in response to Message 1136.

Possibly the Level of Hr's needed to get a Star needs to be raised, as CPU & GPU Performance increases getting 5000 Hr's on a App will be easier & easier


I don't follow. An hour is an hour, regardless of how fast the work is done. And the badge here counts only hours. Run a project on a P4 thread for a day, you get 24 hours. Run a project on an i7 thread for a day, and you will get the same 24 hours. Same with a GPU (assuming it counts wall time and not CPU time).
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Message 1139 - Posted: 2 Apr 2013, 15:06:54 UTC

Follow this: Instead of only needing 20 App's @ 100 Hr's for a Bronze Star raise it to 20 App's @ 1000 Hr's to get the Bronze Star ... Or 50 App's @ 1000 Hr's for the Bronze Star ...
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Message 1140 - Posted: 2 Apr 2013, 16:49:31 UTC - in response to Message 1139.
Last modified: 2 Apr 2013, 17:03:56 UTC

After only 2months, some people already have 5stars and some have blue stars. As is, after a mere 6months, some people will have little or no further interest in the projects badge system and within two years hundreds of others could be in the same situation.

1000h isn't that difficult for most projects, but it would increase the list of apps which didn't reach the bronze badge level, and would probably deter crunchers with only one average system; a cruncher with a single quad core/thread system would take 10.4days per project crunching 24/7 to reach 1000h per app. That's 208days for a bronze star (assuming only 20 projects are needed).

I'm thinking the badges need to be more exponential or have higher multiples, but I would favor the idea of it being based on the calendar as its a runtime tally. So, week/month/quarter/year/leap year/decade/century and millennium if you like:

100 hours : Bronze -> 168h (week)
250 hours : Silver -> 730h (month)
500 hours : Gold -> 2190h (quarter)
1000 hours: Ruby -> 8760h (1year)
2500 hours: Emerald -> 35040h (4years leap/WC/Olympic year )
5000 hours: Sapphire -> 87600h (10years)

This would stretch the times out, but not be too difficult to begin with.
I would have a silver and a bronze, be half way to gold and silver, and would remain interested for longer.

Alternatively, or as well, you could stretch the stars out:
20 applications : 1 star -> 10apps
40 applications : 2 stars -> 25apps
60 applications : 3 stars -> 50apps
80 applications : 4 stars -> 100apps
100 applications: 5 stars -> 250apps

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Message 1141 - Posted: 2 Apr 2013, 18:46:51 UTC

You lost me ... lol
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Message 1142 - Posted: 2 Apr 2013, 18:57:40 UTC - in response to Message 1139.

Follow this: Instead of only needing 20 App's @ 100 Hr's for a Bronze Star raise it to 20 App's @ 1000 Hr's to get the Bronze Star ... Or 50 App's @ 1000 Hr's for the Bronze Star ...


Yes, I understand your suggestion about changing the values of the stars. That's fine by me. Or adding more stars. Whatever works.

But that is not what I was responding to. I was addressing your point about faster processors and faster GPUs making it easier to hit the badge requirements. That is the part that doesn't make sense to me. The badges are awarded based on time, not credits or work done. For example, running a 5870 for a day is exactly the same as running a 7970 for a day, as far as the badges here are concerned. Of course, the 7970 would do more work, but that is irrelevant.
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Message 1143 - Posted: 2 Apr 2013, 19:22:29 UTC

Is there some reason a second Badge couldn't be added, this would add five more stars and would leave enough room for a fair bit of growth in the number of apps and help keep some of the power crunchers motivated.

As a short term fix perhaps adding an Amethyst badge at say 25000 hrs would help for those that prefer to devote their resources to their favourite projects.

The gap between Sapphire and Amethyst could be mitigated perhaps by changing Emerald -> 5000 hrs and Sapphire -> 10000 hrs.

That would keep the changes to a minimum and keep the lower levels within reach of the average Cruncher...
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Message 1144 - Posted: 2 Apr 2013, 19:41:00 UTC - in response to Message 1142.

Follow this: Instead of only needing 20 App's @ 100 Hr's for a Bronze Star raise it to 20 App's @ 1000 Hr's to get the Bronze Star ... Or 50 App's @ 1000 Hr's for the Bronze Star ...


But that is not what I was responding to. I was addressing your point about faster processors and faster GPUs making it easier to hit the badge requirements. That is the part that doesn't make sense to me. The badges are awarded based on time, not credits or work done. For example, running a 5870 for a day is exactly the same as running a 7970 for a day, as far as the badges here are concerned. Of course, the 7970 would do more work, but that is irrelevant.


Okay I see what you mean now & your right, I just thought you didn't understand what I was referring to about increasing the amount of Hr's to reach a higher level of Badge or the amount of App's to reach a higher level of Badge ...

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Message 1145 - Posted: 2 Apr 2013, 22:38:09 UTC
Last modified: 2 Apr 2013, 22:38:28 UTC

Heh. I was the one who brought up the need for a more difficult scheme originally. ;)

http://wuprop.boinc-af.org/forum_thread.php?id=159&nowrap=true#961
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Message 1286 - Posted: 10 Jun 2013, 2:43:32 UTC
Last modified: 10 Jun 2013, 2:44:01 UTC

I now have enough hours for seven stars. The 6th would be gold, and the 7th bronze. And I am working on "what if" stars beyond that.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/55884901/stars.ods
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Message 1287 - Posted: 10 Jun 2013, 7:10:06 UTC

Even though I have a relatively small output, I have already reached stars for 80 applications and have over 100 applications that I have time on.
I am not running all projects either.
So if a smaller cruncher like me can reach over 100 applications without running all projects, then with new application releases from all the various projects, it wont take a real long time to reach upwards of 200 applications.

Currently we have 5 possible stars and 100 applications on 6 levels.

Two badges side by side will yield 10 possible stars and 200 applications, on current hour levels.

Main problem will be size of the badge.

If you changed the badge to be an X symbol made of stars you would get 9 possible stars and 180 applications (2 stars on each arm and 1 star in the middle). This could even be expanded with stars in the gaps between each arm. Still on 6 levels.

Keeps badge the same size it is now or a little bigger.

If the hours were increased above 5,000h to say 7,500h ; 10,000h ; 20,000h hours or following current system 10,000h ; 25,000h; 50,000h then as others have stated interest stays higher.

Colours for the higher levels would be difficult but

Topaz, Amethyst, Diamond
Pearl, Aquamarine, Onyx

or different combinations

Are just a couple of suggestions without changing what is already there.

But I think the current system needs expanding.

Conan
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