Posts by NATE1

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1) Message boards : Number crunching : mult clients (Message 2114)
Posted 24 Mar 2014 by Profile NATE1
From your describtion I understand, that 12 BOINC clients are running 24 hours a day


no

Well, maybe you need better examples than. Examples


yes
2) Message boards : Number crunching : mult clients (Message 2112)
Posted 23 Mar 2014 by Profile NATE1
12 clients 1 ci project attached to each client (12 projects)
each client has a client_state.xml of say 10 k
each client running on pref.s only 4 run at time for 8 hours each.
then those 4 stop and the next 4 and then the next 4
from 00:00 to 08:00 projects a,b,c, and d run
from 08:00 to 16:00 projects e,f,g, and h run
from 16:00 to 24:00 projects j,k,l, and m run
cycle repeats.
when 4 of the projects are running then only the client_state for those 4 projects needs to be updated and not all of the client_states will update at the same time.
so at most your only copy/update/rename 10 k per project or around 40 k if by chance all 4 projects just happen to need updating at the same time.

1 client 12 ci projects attached
client state 100 k, no repeated header/footer information
every time one of the projects need to have something updated in the client_state you will have to create another 100 k file each and every time.

messing with 40 k of data is a lot faster messing with 100 k of data.
maybe total bytes = 120 k but your only having to deal with at most 40 k at a time.

point is not all of the clients are running the projects apps at the same time.
and no I wasn't talking about 30 days cache.
and before you say it, why would you run it that way, that's dum.
I didn't say I did, just trying to provide an example.

so, I try to explain what I'm talking about, but like my last post, nobody really gets what I am trying to say 99.9999% of the time..

3) Message boards : Number crunching : mult clients (Message 2110)
Posted 23 Mar 2014 by Profile NATE1
it also allows the projects apps to run faster, not having to dig into all the other information about all the other project before it finds what it needs to update. the smaller the client state the less time it takes to create the client state next and the faster it can get back to processing the project tasks
lower overhead.

The BOINC client writes the client_state.xml, not the project apps. And it also does not need to dig into anything, it reads the client_state.xml once at startup, than it just writes new versions of it when needed and deletes the old ones.


that has always been one of my biggest problems, I am unable to get my point across
no it does not write the app.
it may read the client_state at startup but it has to create a client_state_next file with all the updated information for the client_state. I looked into it. had to do a little digging myself.
when the boinc client goes to update the client_state file it creates a client_state_next file, in which it places all the updated information.
to put it simply it copies the client_state to the client_state line for line only changing the lines that need to be updated or added to.
when done it deletes the client_state_prev file, renames the client_state to the client_state_prev and then renames the client_state_next to the client_state
if you only have one project attached to the client and don't keep 30 days results and whatnot in it, I have some client_state file less than 10 K
now a client that has 12 projects attached to it with 30 days of results the client state can reach well over 10 million bytes.
now coping 10 milling bytes from one file to another and changing whatever needed to be update then doing the delete and renaming takes a heck of a lot of time...
also for a period of time you have 3 10 million byte files on your mass storage device..
so which is quicker? 10 k bytes copied and updated or 10 M bytes copied and updated?

well whatever...
4) Message boards : Number crunching : mult clients (Message 2107)
Posted 21 Mar 2014 by Profile NATE1
also you ever seen the size the client state can get?
take a look next time after the client has been running for a while with a number of projects attached...

every time the client state file needs to be updated it has to create what is called client_state_next.xml which has all the updates to it
it then deletes the client_state_prev.xml
renames the client_state.xml to client_state_prev.xml
then renames the client_state_next.xml to client_state.xml
most people never see the client_state_next.xml
but you let the client_state.xml hang on to all the information that is in there and then create another client state next file the same size or larger.
your killing your ssd, hdd don't suffer that much. but the ssd will die an early death with all the changes...
mult clients keep the client_state.xml down to a min. size
it also allows the projects apps to run faster, not having to dig into all the other information about all the other project before it finds what it needs to update. the smaller the client state the less time it takes to create the client state next and the faster it can get back to processing the project tasks
lower overhead.
5) Message boards : Number crunching : mult clients (Message 2101)
Posted 21 Mar 2014 by Profile NATE1
I had to copy the wuprop.boinc-af.org directory to the 2nd client data/projects
directory created the app_info.xml and copy the data_collect_v4_4.13_windows_x86_64__nci.exe to the the wuprop directory
then start the second client then attach to the project
if the app_info.xml and the data_collection exe are not there already it takes an error
at least it worked for me doing that way...
and just to be on the safe side I put an app_info.xml in the 1st client with the default port.
6) Message boards : Number crunching : mult clients (Message 2059)
Posted 7 Mar 2014 by Profile NATE1
well, it should be fun to see how fast the admin/dev can program when BOINC goes from
c:/programdata/boinc/client_state.xml
to
c:/programdata/boinc/projects/whatever_project_your_running/project_state.xml

in other words doing away with one client state file and making it one state file for each project, in that project directory.
7) Message boards : Number crunching : mult clients (Message 2040)
Posted 3 Mar 2014 by Profile NATE1
ok how about this, something like an app_config.xml for wuprop on hosts with multi-clients you can put in the project directory

boinc_data_dir.xml

<boincdatadir>
<dir>C:/programdata/boinc</dir>
<dir>C:/programdata/boinc1</dir>
<dir>C:/programdata/boinc2</dir>
.
.
.
</boincdatadir>

change the app to look in all the listed directory and collect the data...
8) Message boards : Number crunching : mult clients (Message 2037)
Posted 1 Mar 2014 by Profile NATE1
and one more thing.
some of the projects will beat up on your cpu runs hot
and you have to set it to run less than 100% of the time
other projects don't and while running you cpu does not run hot.
so setting up one project per client you can set that client to run at say 80% of time and the others at 100% of the time.

in other words you taylor the options to your host and project.
and could very well save your cpu from burning out...

that is why.
boinc client has never been able to handle more than a few projects attached to it at any given time.
once you attach more than one project to the client you start compounding problems that come up...
9) Message boards : Number crunching : mult clients (Message 2036)
Posted 1 Mar 2014 by Profile NATE1
also on the good side of mult-clients...
say you wish to run 5 projects
4 of the projects play well together.
but one is a pain to run.
lets say this one project has only MT tasks meaning it wants 100% of the host when it runs, has short deadlines, and can take anywhere from a few seconds to over 150 hours to run.
so you put 2 boinc clients on the host and set the 1st one with the 4 good projects on it and the pain project on the 2nd client.
now run both clients on computer preferences.
you let client 1 which has the 4 projects run all day because they don't take over.
and at the time you go to bed client 1 suspends and client 2 unsuspends allowing the bad boy to have 100% of the host and you don't have to deal with the computer becoming nonresponsive. and just before you get up in the morning client 2 suspends and client 1 unsuspends..
in other words you get a lot more control over which projects run and when...
10) Message boards : Number crunching : mult clients (Message 2035)
Posted 1 Mar 2014 by Profile NATE1
What's the reason for using one project per client?


some of the projects only have work every now and then. you don't know when and if your host dose not need work at the time that the project does have work you miss it.
if one of the projects misbehave you don't have to deal with having every other project you have work for, on the host, being messed up. Have you ever been flooded with tasks from one project for some reason, the host goes into panic mode, (yes I know it not really panic mode but a lot of people still call it that)
and find that there were so many task from one project that the other projects tasks were just setting there for the last 5 days in waiting to run past their deadline and when you checked at the project you find that the tasks had already been sent out to another host been returned and they got credit for it and you will not?
also have you ever got upset that the project admin had a late nite at the pub and missed things up with a batch of tasks and caused you even more problem, or they sent out a new version of a app that causes boinc client to crash and you wind up having to reinstall and it takes the data directory with it?

oh I could go on and on and on with what I have seen.
but it comes down to this for me. set up one host for each project, don't have the money for that, or put each project on it own client.
less problems for me.

so for me, run it this way or pull the plug...
11) Message boards : Number crunching : mult clients (Message 2032)
Posted 28 Feb 2014 by Profile NATE1
I can now answer my own question. no, wuprop is not. the tasks abort.
12) Message boards : Number crunching : mult clients (Message 2031)
Posted 28 Feb 2014 by Profile NATE1
http://boinc.berkeley.edu/trac/wiki/ProjectOptions

<multiple_clients_per_host>0|1</multiple_clients_per_host>
Set this if some of your hosts run multiple BOINC clients simultaneously (this is the case on projects that use Condor and/or grid resources, which require each client to use only 1 CPU). If set, the scheduler will skip a check that tries to locate the host based on its IP address.

yep, read it somewhere....
13) Message boards : Number crunching : mult clients (Message 2030)
Posted 28 Feb 2014 by Profile NATE1
let me try to explain, I am not trying to cheat.
I have 22 client running on 4 hosts. I can run 1 wuprop task on each host but that does not pick up the other info from the other clients.
why mult-clients on each host you ask?
each client has one project attached to it.
so running only 1 wuprop task on each physical host does not pick up the information on the other clients..
some of the project only have work every now and then and your just lucky if the host needs work and the project has work at the same time.
by running mult-clients with one attached to the projects that have little work your more likely to pick up work for that project.

I did read somewhere, that the boinc server has a flag that you could set in the server config that would allow mult-clients on one host.

hope this makes sense
14) Message boards : Number crunching : mult clients (Message 2021)
Posted 26 Feb 2014 by Profile NATE1
is wuprop set up for mult clients running on same host?




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